MOG

Great review Anna have been waiting for this one too, wish we had the open air option! Getting me some Dark Knight this wkend, itching for it now...cheerz love XXXP

lol...it almost sounds like you're saying Ledger played a better Joker than Nicholson.  I know, I know...insane.  I'm just saying it ALMOST sounds like that.

Will do, Mark! Dance, dance like a bat out of...erm, I enjoyed this movie too much...

Merci, changling! Scratch that itch and enjoy :)

xoxo

Thanks for the heads up dear... reassuring to hear the hype coming from someone I trust...

Troy, it's too bad that you can't see my enigmatic smile right now ;)

You're very welcome, Joxy. It's not like I can afford to lie to a lad who's got a license to kill ;)

Noice! Can't wait to see it!

Well, if you misled me, I'd have to revoke your license to thrill...

I just got back from seeing it...and i am not a fan of comic book movies or action movies mostly, but really liked this...Ledger was way, WAY better than Nicholson...

To be honest, once upon a time i thought that Tim Curry would make a superlative Joker; give him a white face, green hair and a risus sardonicus and he'd be perfect physically, and (as we see in his big mad scene in the Alec Baldwin Shadow movie) he can do crazy most excellently...

Too old these days, i guess.

Off you go to the dark side, uncle A! :)

Joxy, oh no, I bribed so many people to get that one ;P

Blair, yay!

Ledger was much darker, Nicholson was more funny. I prefer the darker version myself, but I think it's a matter of taste.

I also think that Bale is the best Batman.

Mike, I agree. I'm sure you wouldn't be able to tell his age underneath all the make up.

BTW, I found this quote from a comic: when super-villains want to scare each other, they tell Joker stories.

muwhahhahahaha

satisfiedmind2: BLASPHEMER!!!

Panther, don't read my previous comment! ;)

In fact, this movie, comic-book and graphic novel buff (who saw "The Dark Knight" on Monday morning and was compelled to see a second advance screening on Wednesday night) can only agree with satisfiedmind2. Nicholson is an amazing and entertaining actor, but he is always Nicholson - and squeezing him into a Joker costume and gluing some prosthetics to his face didn't change that. I always had problems with director Tim Burton's two Batman films. The art direction was pretty terrific, and Michael Keaton was surprisingly good as Bruce Wayne, as was Michael Gough as Alfred the butler. But the rest was just too goofy or miscast. It was like Burton actually wanted to channel a little of the campy '60s Batman TV series while still keeping his Knight dark. And those Prince songs he commissioned were simply gratuitous and distracting. Christopher Nolan's films are much closer to what I want from a cinematic depiction of Gotham City's defender. You certainly get wit and grandiose superheroics, but "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight" are also also psychologically astute and roiling over with hyper-real tension suggesting that what we see on screen is not that implausible. Ledger's Joker? No bogus, non-canon tie-in to Batman's origin. No explanation of him at all. Just a believable depiction of evil and dementia in a brutally exciting presentation. He is/was nothing short of protean. I should also mention the brilliant and textured work by Aaron Eckhart as crusading district attorney Harvey Dent whose personal journey is the actual dramatic arc of the film. It's a killer!

Actually, the problem with Tim Curry and his age is that - last i saw him, as he's aged, he's also put on weight (not to excess) but he's a different shape now than he was then.

Burton didn't "commission" the Prince songs - they were basically shoved on him by the studio.  You'll notice that the only place in the film where we hear one in full, prominent in the mix, is the museum scene, where it's "music to desecrate art by", which i strongly suspect that Burton, acutely aware of all elements in his films, more or less intended.

As to "canonical" - the Joker's origin (and the backstory involving the mugger who killed Bruce Wayne's parents) has been retconned so many times that almost anything you might think of can be "canonical".

Which includes the origin in Alan Moore's The Killing Joke (which, since events in it have affected the series ever since, must be considered pretty much "canonical"), in which Joker was a small-time crook being set up as a fall guy by a gang who fell into a vat of chemicals.

Or the origin in flashback sequences in the animated direct-to-video Mask of the Phantasm, in which the )un-named) gangster who eventually became the Joker was a high-level  mob enforcer when Bruce Wayne was in his teens...

There's also Alan Vachss' ghodawful Batman mini-series/text novel, in which Bruce's parents were killed in what looked like a robbery but was actually a cover for his mother's murder (she was an "investigative sociologist", whatever that is) by a hitman sent by an international ring of wealthy pederasts because she was about to expose them...

I refuse to believe it.  Of course, I'll wait until I see the movie to pass judgement, but...I thought Jacky was an incredible Joker.  The guy is supposed to be funny.   Demented, but still funny.  I will admit though, that Ledger's look and make-up in this film is much better than Nicholson's in the first flick.  Still, I think Jack was a perfect choice.  His voice, his demeanor...he is the Joker.

I'm so pissed that I don't get to see this flick with my friends tonight.  The reviews have been great across the board.  But, I promised a little lady that we'd go camping in the back yard tonight. :)

lol, I loved Mask of the Phantasm.  There's a scene in there where Batman and Joker are grappling with each other, and Joker has his back to a table that has a cleaver and a salami on it.  You see Joker's hand reach behind him to grab a weapon...and he comes up with the salami and whacks Batman across the face with it.  Hilarity!  THAT'S the element of the Joker that I loved Nicholson for.  The actual humor.

my bro saw this last night at the drive in. he said it was 'friggin sweet'

i have to see it. i just... i just have ta!

fairportfan: Rather than harping on the thousands of hours I've spent reading comic books, I'll simply say that, despite additions or subtractions to the Joker's origin, nowhere in the pages of DC comics (unless we're talking a comic-book adaptation of Burton's first Batman film) has it ever been shown that anyone other than a street thief (usually named Joe Chill) - hired or otherwise - killed Thomas & Martha Wayne. It's never been the Joker, pre- or post-acid bath. And that double-killing in front of litte Bruce has never been ret-conned (unless Grant Morrison is doing it right now in the pages of "Batman: R.I.P."). As regards Prince's music, it was commissioned by the filmmakers, whether we're talking the producers or the director, and it's a part of Burton's film, like it or not - including the ludicrous Joker parade sequence.

Troy: Ledger's Joker is funny - in a very, very sick way. See, he's an insane killer (just like in the comics), but this is a more realistic take on the character. And no joke is really funny in real life when it's cracked by a murdererous madman.  

Haste makes spelling waste: litte = little, murdererous = murderous.

Godver..i haven't beent to the cinema for like...2 n a half years?

what teh heck

yup... nicholson - always nicholson - love him - but he's a way better tom hanks - they don't usually surprise me.

Heath always surprised me... that's why I can't wait to see him.  Bale - always surprises me - can't wait to see him - glad they cast Maggie - Katie Holmes didn't carry the role the way I am sure Maggie will.  But it is something I am dying to do - see it this weekend - Sunday to be precise - then in a few weeks at IMAX to do it up right !!!

 

I love you sweet Grecian sis !!!  And I loved hearing your first hand account before I braved the bat ;)  NO JOKE !!!  XOXOXOXO

Well, as i said, in the Andrew Vachss-written Batman mini-series, it's not Joe Chill who kills the Waynes, and it is a commissioned hit.  It's stupid and i hate it, but it is there.

My point is that saying anything is or isn't "canonical" in terms of Batman's history is pretty tricky to pin down.  And may - and likely will - change tomorrow; case in point - Spoiler isn't dead, and, it turns out, never was.

Joe Chill himself is a (relatively) late addition to the Batman canon - sometime in the 1950s or early 60s, i believe.  Originally, the killer was just a random thug.

(And, not to play "My geek-fu is greater than yours", but i'd be willing to bet that i've been reading comics longer than you and have read more - plus having friends/acquaintances in the industry. I remember the first "red kryptonite" story, which i read when it was new, and i wish i still had my copies of Amazing Fantasy 15 and Fantastic Four 3...)

Troy love... the problem with Jack (if you would call it a problem & many wouldn't) is that he was angry in a few scenes - the idea of the joker is that he never gets "angry" he's a JOKER... & from what I understand (Haven't seen it yet so can't pass any judgement) is that Heath rocked the JOKER vibe... more so than Jack as Jack crossed a line many comicheads don't want the Joker to cross...

Like Pop, I am not a huge fan of big crowded theaters so in two weeks I will be seeing this. I really do not know if I can wait that long though

That's why I am going this weekend & then waiting a few weeks to see it IMAX styley - I can't wait - C Bale, Maggie & Heath - I am in my own personal brilliance trifecta !!!

Looking forward to it.  Definitely IMAX material.  Chris Nolan, briiliant.

well yeah... He's the other C in the C equation ;)

So much talk of seeing it on the IMAX, is it that much better?

Depends.  When there's stuff moving really fast, that huge screen can make it harder to follow than it would on an ordinary screen - but, overall, IMAX is a better viewing experience formost films, especially ones made with IMAX in mind.

Too damned expensive for me, though, and the nearest IMAX theatre is like thirty miles away.

YES !!!  YES !!! YES !!! 

 

It's like a movie on crack (if I ever tried crack)... I saw one of the last three star wars trilogies on IMAX & it was friggin insane !!!

 

One word for you Kiddo - MATINEE - less people even on an opening weekend...

since I am summer vacation I might have to make the trip

and that is just because I like crack

Oh great, now I REALLY want to see this movie! We've been watching the DVD of Batman Begins all week to get in the mood. Thanks so much for the review, you know how much I trust your judgment on film as well as music. :)

Yeah, I guess that's the thing.  I'm not a comic book head at all, so I don't know what does or doesn't stick to the original script.  I just know what I like.  And I like Jack.

But, I'll give this Ledger guy a chance.  One critic actually said he deserves an Oscar for the performance.  That would be interesting, to see someone win an Oscar for playing the Joker.

I'm glad they this version of Batman. Can't wait to see it!

 

I walked out at the conclusion of the midnight screening, muttering to myself "Now that's a movie!" When was the last time I really felt I got my money's worth at the flicks? Couldn't tell you, but "money's worth" is an ever taller order when a ticket might cost you $13.  And no, I concur:  this ain't no mindless summer thrill ride.  It's emotionally brutal.  But I never felt I was being manipulated, or that the filmmakers were willing to play any old card that might shock or appall the viewer.  It earns its right to turn the viewer inside out.

That said, I further mumbled to myself that the chances of my seeing this movie had Heath Ledger not died would probably have been close to zero. That we are watching a dead man play this hideous character chills the blood more than cinematic artistry alone could have accomplished.   One question:  why in hell in this a PG-13 rated movie?  If we assume for a moment that movies should be rated and that the ratings ought to make sense, this movie deserves an R.     Sure, the movie leaves out the "fucks"  and the skin and the graphic gore, but if one has any sensitivity at all, there's emotional trauma galore here that is all too contagious.  There is no way that I would encourage parents to expose impressionable youths to this material. 

Lizziegreeneyes:  There's more artistry in one Maggie Gyllenhaal lip twitch than in Katie "I Married a Martian"  Holmes' entire career.  She, like everyone else in the "Dark Knight" cast, is splendid.  (To anyone who has never seen Mag's benchmark performance in "Secretary,"  please put it on your to-do list.)

By the way, it's nice to see that someone remembered what a strong performer Eric Roberts is;  he plays a Mafia kingpin here.  I was touched to see him, as I feel he has been unfairly consigned to the Hollywood dustbin.   

The end credits reveal Anthony Michael Hall was in the movie, but I can't for the life of me remember where.

Still finding it slightly nauseating the ‘Heath for Oscar’ promotion that’s going on at the moment because he’s great in it….and dead; Hollywood always goes for the sympathy vote…sounds like a forgone conclusion.

Still go and see it though...

(Maggie Gyllenhaal in Secretary, now that's a film...)

Can I just say how delighted I am with all the comic info that appear at my post?!

I agree with Blair and Mike (the Knife) all the way. It's just like Mike said, Nicholson as a Joker, was clearly Nicholson playing the Joker, while Ledger as a Joker, was the Joker.

Holmes is all shades of obnoxious. Maggie all the way.

I always pick summer theaters and small cinema theaters to see a movie. I hate multiplexes, no character at all. We don't have IMAX here, but I would be seriously tempted to see the movie that way.

Pyro, Kevin, Sam, Ray and Tyler, you should all meet up and go now now now!

Brother, I am very pleased that you can see this, but also shocked. I thought you were mistaken till I read Mr Sellwood's comment to realize it's a PG-13 rated film, and now I'm very puzzzled with the rating.

"It earns its right to turn the viewer inside out" very well put, Buzz.

Petey, the casting was truly immaculate. I couldn't remember Hall either, but I read that he played an investigative TV reporter for the GCN.

Neill, haven't noticed the promotion, but if they can give an Oscar to someone that is no longer alive if the movie he was in was shown within the year, I'm all up for it.

Petey: Anthony Michael Hall was the tabloid reporter.

Re: IMAX. It's only really used in a number of big-moment mega-scope scenes - and very effective. See it as Nolan meant for you to see it if you can. Then, rewatch on video.

fairportfan: Seriously, a comic-book-geek pissing contest? My point was that the Joker was never a part of Batman's origin in the comics, and that a street thug (hired or not, "Joe Chill" or not) was the one who killed Bruce Wayne's parents. By the way, the math says that Joe Chill, introduced in the '50s or early '60s - has been around for 50 years or so of the Batman's 70 or so years of existence. That's way more than half of the Bat's run, so "(relatively) late addition"? "Relatively early" would be more like it. And, as much as you might like Stephanie "Spoiler" Brown, she's a (relatively) minor member of the Batman family, and her disposition is of (comparitively) little import in the grand 70-year saga. BTW, I'd take that bet. I'm not gonna brag about the size of the collection, but I own a copy of World's Finest #6 (1942), and, though I wasn't alive then, I've read (and continue to read) so many mags that have been issued and reissued since then (partly because I love 'em and partly because it's ongoing research for one aspect of my career) that it's ridick. Just ask any of my comics industry pals (who number in the double-digits), whether writers, artists, editors, marketers or distributors, and they'll tell you. ;-)

Thanks Anna and Mike K.  

Here's Mike Engel interviewing Harvey Dent at the Gotham News Network website.  The site has apparently been "hacked" and vandalized by some joker.

http://www.gothamcablenews.com/

ooh, ooh, the anticipation is making feel like a kid again!

Mike - cool.

My whole point is that in the world of comics anything - except the death of Baron Zemo, for some reason (and that may have changed since i mostly stopped reading Marvel comics), nothing is immune from retcons, from Ben Grimm's escape from chains in Ancient Egypt in a very early Fantastic Four to Powergirl or Supergirl's origins (several times each), Green Lantern's twisted history...

Of course, the Joker's "real" origin is apparently one of the versions of the Red Hood story, either from Detective 168, back in 1951, or from The Killing Joke.

Let's just say that in real terms, the killer of Bruce's parents becoming the Joker is no less silly than Joe Chill becoming a major player in Gotham's gangs and being killed by his fellow thugs when they discover that, somehow, he is responsible for the Batman's origin (which i recall they did once) or the Chill brothers' mother working for Bruce Wayne as housekeeper (i think it was - something like that, i don't recall exactly, it was such a silly story) without him knowing...

For that matter, if they had named the character in the Burton film who eventually became the Joker "Joe Chill", instead of "Jack Napier", would that have upset you as much?  (It would, of course, have violated the only "canonical" Joker origin i know of, but...)

just got back from seeing it... it was amazing.  I have to side with everyone who said Ledger was a better Joker than Jack.  Like Blair said, I don't even think it was close.  I am amazed by his performance, top to bottom it was remarkable.

Between Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, Nolan has clearly reinvented this movie franchise (similar to how Casino Royale and hopefully Quantum of Solace did to the 007 franchise) and it was desperately needed.

What made Ledger, and his Joker so great and so mesmerizing was the fact that there was NO method to his madness.  When he first told the story of how he got the scars, it almost made him human, almost made his character deserving of sympathy, but 30 so minutes later, when he tells a completely DIFFERENT story of how he got the scars, you realize that as Alfred so eloquently put, "some men just want to watch the world burn..." 

fairportfan; If they had named the character in the Burton film who eventually became the Joker "Joe Chill" instead of "Jack Napier," I would have been inconsolable. And if turbaned assassins dumped the Jack-Joker's broken body into the Lazarus Pit and resurrected him, and he fathered a beautiful, seductive, but delusional daughter named Talia, well, you wouldn't be able to imagine my fury...

msquared64: Yes, yes, and yes - to all your points.

Which leads me to the travesty they made of Ra's al Ghul in "Batman Begins"...

msquared, that's pretty much the way the Joker in the brilliant graphic novel Mad Love - the origin of Harley Quinn, possibly the best single comic story featuring the Bat and the Joker (tied with The Killing Joke, in my estimation).  (Later adapted for the animated series...)  (Of which you can read my review here...)

I saw the film on IMAX this afternoon and it was great.  I loved Heath Ledger's Joker.  He was incredible.  Although the fact that I recognized so many of the locations, including the building in which I was watching the film, on screen was sort of distracting at times. 

Can't wait to see the film!  Will be booking my ticket this week!

I think that Ledger's Joker was way better than Nicholson's, and that Nolan's Batman movies have completely crushed Burton's - and I must say that I'm a big fan of both Nicholson (fellow Jersey boy) and Burton.  It is a shame that we lost Ledger so young, he would have been fun to watch, and definitely think he would have been "one of the greats" with a very long career.  Tragic.

I also can't believe that anyone would get in to a pissing contest with Mike the Knife... and when you're talking canon, it more than implies origin - and at least for this reader, you have to go back to the source to figure out canon and the original mythos (That's my humble opinion though - I stopped reading comics before my teen years) - but my brother is a constant source of knowledge, with a collection (and memory) that would rival anyone's - so if you need a real arbiter to step in - let me know, but again, I think that Mike the Knife probably has anyone trumped in terms of knowledge... :) - now here's something completely outside the canon based on ownership of the characters... "'Nuff Said..." LOL!!!